IRFCA Mailing List Archive

Messages 3401 - 3420

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Train service required

Date: 27 Aug 1998 10:41:03 -0500

> >There is also the famous Ravli (sp?) junction link just South of
> >Wadala station on CR Harbor line. This was the site of possibly
> >the worst accident in Mumbai's suburban train history. Anyway, a
> >train from Pune could come on the CR mainline until Kurla, then head
> >off on harbor line, and then turn around at Wadala to head for WR via
> >Kings Circle, and Mahim Jn. I am not sure if the train needs to
> >reverse directions at Wadala or whether there is a triangle -bypass
of
> >Wadala that would avoid the reverse. I understand that many goods
> >trains used to use this route before the BSR link.

I believe the Ravli Jn flyover is too steep for a mail / express to
climb.
Only EMUs use the flyover and the freighters use the lines freed by the
EMUs
passing overhead.

Apurva

>
>
> I believe they have constructed a Ravli Jn. bypass flyover to avoid
> direction reversal at Vadala Rd. In fact, the Belapur-Andheri locals
> use this to connect between CR and WR. So, we could have a
Pune-Bandra
> train via Vasai Rd. (no triangle here, so reversal needed) or via
Ravli
> bypass (no reversal). However, the latter will not serve stations
south
> of Bandra.
>
> >
> >On other notes, thanks to Poras and Viral for the timings and info
> >about the new Time-table -we really appreciate your taking the time
to
> >post this stuff. The new Kurla-Howrah exp seems a curious beast. It
>
> I second Pushkar in expressing my gratitude to Poras and Viral for
> supplying us with the schedules.
>
> >is not symmetrical in Up and down - it is more like the
> >Mumbai-Bangalore exp via Belgaum which makes the down journey in 2
> >nts-1 day, waits @ Bangalore for a day and then starts back the foll.
> >morning. This one does the same with Howrah. It would appear that
> >the timings for Nagpur on the return journey will not be too
> >convenient...
>
> Just compared this with the Gitanjali. Not much difference in
run-times
> except for the Bhusaval-Nagpur and Nagpur-Durg sections.
> Am not sure whether Igatpuri is a passenger or techincal halt. Will
> have to wait for the CR timetable.
>
> >
> >Finally, this upstart Trivandrum Rajdhani is really getting one's
goat
> >- to upstage the venerable Mumbai Rajdhani on its own turf with only
> >one commercial halt of Vadodara between Delhi and Mumbai? And screw
> >up so many WR superfasts to boot? Terrible!
>
> That's strange. The Rediff page includes Kota and Raltam in the halt
> list and it doesn't make sense for them to show techincal halts. Will
> have to wait for the WR timetable on this one. TAAG is not always
> reliable.
>
> Vijay
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Trains at a Glance

Date: 27 Aug 1998 13:50:52 -0500

I'd certainly be interested in having timetables if this all happens.
I'd volunteer to help with distributing them, but I'm often disorganized
about
mailing things, and wouldn't be a good person to do this.

Peter Mosse wrote:

> Apurva Bahadur's recent mention of Trains at a Glance reminded me that
a
> few year's ago I was able to obtain a copy of the then current issue
from
> the Indian Govt Tourist Office in New York.
>
> I will check with them next time I go past their offices (probably
later
> this week or early next week) and see if they have any copies
available at
> the moment. I will then post appropriate information on the list.
>
> If they do have some copies, then I can buy some and send them to
people in
> the US who are interested. This may be easier than obtaining them
from
> India. [ Of course the Tourist Office may NOT have the most recent
issue.
> ]
>
> Peter Mosse

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: Train service required

Date: 27 Aug 1998 19:12:43 -0500

> Our fellow railnuts from Borivali like Viraf can confirm that the BSR
> link has a triangle at the Vasai end. I am sure Viraf will be the
first
> one to use this train. Any comments ?

Hi Appu,

Vasai Road station doesn't have a triangle. Your dream train will have
to
reverse. And yes I will be the first one to use this train.

> PS: The Dombivali - Vasai is not the only rail link between Central
and
> the Western Rail in Mumbai - there exist a small crossover in the
Parel
> yard. Once the NDLS - MCT Rajdhani Exp used this link to get to Mumbai
> Central as the Western Rail link was down due to some mishap. A senior
> electric driver of the Mumbai division who is also trained on WDM2
> guided the train from Igatpuri to MCT. This was in the 1970s when the
> BSR link was not built yet.
>

I was told that many year ago before the world war II, there existed
another western - central railway link (those years it was BB&CI-GIP),
between Bandra and Kurla. It was a double line and had a big cantilever
bridge over the marshes which is now a bird sanctuary. There are a few
remnant of this line which still exist like the stone road bridge
outside
Kurla station, which was actually a railway bridge.

My exboss used to tell me that he had seen this line as a kid, which was
later dismanteled because of the shortage of steel during the Second
World
War.

Regards
==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrejnet.email
==========================

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: Train service required

Date: 27 Aug 1998 19:18:51 -0500

Hi Pushkar,

The train from Kurla comming into Wadala will have to reverse for
Bandra since there is no reversing loop or a triangle at Wadala.
Regards

==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrejnet.email
==========================

From: poras p.saklatwalla <>

Subject: Re: LIFE ON THE RAILS.

Date: 27 Aug 1998 19:56:43 -0500

The halt at Igatpuri is 10 minutes and yes it was a WAP2 ON GITANJALI.
WHAT VIRAL HAS QUOTED IS RIGHT AS I DID NOT HAVE TAAG WHEN I WROTE TO
YOU.

PORAS P.SAKLATWALLA
TEL :5773535/3636
EXT :4226/4232/4237

From: Julian.Rainbow <>

Subject: Paying for Timetables

Date: 27 Aug 1998 21:03:24 -0500

Hi gang,
We have just been trying to import Sri Bhandari's books from Delhi Rail
Museum, we did this successfully about a year ago and tried again
recently.
Someone somewhere in India then asked if this was a commercial
operation,
and if the guy sending us the books had an export licence. Probably the
easiest way is to send a number of small packages to individual
addresses
in one country, or send one man a number of packages over a period of
time.
Seamail is definately cheaper, although it will take a long time.
Alternatively, if anyone is visiting India they could bring them home
and
post them from home. One man distributing in one country and sending
one
large bank draft is probably best.
Julian

From: PROTIP.DASGUPTA <>

Subject: Re: Train service required

Date: 27 Aug 1998 22:26:59 -0500

Apurva,
the BSR link does not have a triangular end at vasai riad on WR!!
Also the section, Diva-Vasai is not more than 30 odd km
long...definetely
not 54!
As regards the Vasai end, well South Bound trains coming from the NOrth
of
the country (via WR ie) are routed via this and similarly for North
Bound
trains coming from the south (via CR ie). I am reffering to Frieght
trains
at this point! Very few weekly/biweekly passenger trains use ths
route...about 2-4 a day max! Frieghts are in the region of 10-14. All
figures being up and down combined!
The few trains you mentioned, Rajkot TVC very much use this route to get
on to the KR and the rest of Sount INdia!
regards Bharat Vohra

From: Iain A Fraser <>

Subject: Re: Books

Date: 28 Aug 1998 03:08:50 -0500

Hi

Julians post re getting books out of India....I have some experience in
this field as I can get supplies from the subcontinent albeit sometimes
irregular. Similar situation with East Africa as well!
If I can help let me know

Ive taken the liberty of attaching a mini review of the new Beyer
Peacock Book which has just been released. This is posted in good faith
as I am discovering it is not been distributed widely in the world.

Regards

Iain

From: Julian.Rainbow <>

Subject: Beyer, Peacock Works List

Date: 28 Aug 1998 18:21:20 -0500

Iain says correctly that there is no works list in Richard Hills' Beyer,
Peacock, there is one available from the British Overseas Railways
Historical Trust, 260 Wricklemarsh Road, Blackheath, London, SE3 8DW.
It
was written by Richard Hills. Sterling cheques and POs are acceptable,
as
well as US Dollar cheques made payable to Dr P.E Waters. Unfortunately
being on aboat off Nigeria at the moment, I cannot state the price but
am
sending this note to a friend of mine who will help. From memory the
Works
list contains a brief 4 page history of BP, the works list split into
Garratt and conventional locos and 16 pages of photos.

Julian

Iain A Fraser <iain@aerolite.email on 28/08/98 11:08:50 AM

To: Julian.Rainbow@waii.email
cc: irfca@cs.email (bcc: Julian Rainbow/WGC/WAII)
Subject: Re: Books

Hi
Julians post re getting books out of India....I have some experience in
this field as I can get supplies from the subcontinent albeit sometimes
irregular. Similar situation with East Africa as well!
If I can help let me know
Ive taken the liberty of attaching a mini review of the new Beyer
Peacock Book which has just been released. This is posted in good faith
as I am discovering it is not been distributed widely in the world.
Regards
Iain

Subject: Book Review.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:44:24 +0100
From: Iain A Fraser <iain@aerolite.email
Organization: Aerolite Booktraders
To: livesteamers@uwimona.email
Hi folks.
Beyer Peacock, Locomotive Builders to the World.
Hills and Patrick. Published in the UK. Just released.
This book is the standard work of reference on this great loco building
firm. The first edition in 1982 sold out quickly and became one of the
most sought after books on the secondhand market commanding high prices.
This reprint has long been awaited and maintains the very high standard
of the original being a very high quality reproduction.
In its 300 pages, 18 chapters and 7 appendices it tells the story of
Beyer Peacock from the 1850s to the 1970s. Packed full of photos and
drawings of locos, machinery and parts it is an absolute feast for the
lover of the steam locomotive. BP were very early into the field and
the shear variety of their output is astonishing. The magnificent
Garratt was of course their "own" loco and its development is covered in
detail. Of course whilst the locos are the stars the book also covers
much of the workshops and the development of the machinery as BP
designed and built their own plant. The men who fashioned the machines
are in these pages too.
Many of the surviving steam locos came from BP and they had a reputation
for excellence that was second to none. This book does them justice.
If I have one criticism it is that there is no complete works list
..there wasn't one in the first edition...an omission which surprises me
but there is wealth of material in the book. This reprint is on high
quality art paper with good bindings and I have no reservations in
reccomending it to any serious lover of the steam locomotive.
For information...I understand the print run is less than 1000 and that
the distribution worldwide is very limited...a great shame as it
deserves to be wider known.
It is priced at GBP 32.50 in the UK and because it is a big heavy book
I append the carriage charges as a guide based on my experience.
Surface..worldwide GBP 6.25
Airmail to USA, Canada, South Africa, India, Bermuda, Brazil, Hong Kong
GBP15
Airmail to Australia, NZ, Japan, China, Pacific Islands will be 17.50
The airmail prices may vary a few pennies depending on the packaging
which needs to be substantial.
Of course if I can help anybody with further information on the book let
me know
Regards to all
Iain
Aerolite Booktraders
New and Used Transport Books
iain@aerolite.email

From: FyffesFL <>

Subject: Re: Beyer, Peacock Works List

Date: 30 Aug 1998 18:48:03 -0500

the BORHT edition of the Beyer Peacock workslist costs UKP 10.34 surface
mail
outside the UK, and UKP 11.44 by airmail.

regards to all

richard yudin

From: Prakash Tendulkar <>

Subject: Re: Train service required

Date: 30 Aug 1998 20:25:27 -0500

Apurva,

It's a good idea to propose Pune - Vasai - Bandra train.

Till late 30s, CR operated EMU service from VT - Pune over
the weekend. If I remember right, it used banker during Lonavala -
Karjat section but not the other way. It was subsequently closed
due to shortage of rakes.

When Metro - Hitachi - Breda EMUs came in, they all had pneumatic
brakes, thus were not compatible with vacuum brake electric locos.
Now that the locos have pneumatic brakes, compatibility of brakes
should not be an issue. The advantage of EMU is that it can take
a 10 minutes halt at Vasai, during which guard and motorman can
switch the cabs and then proceed towards Bandra.

I do not know if Vasai has a triangular section to support direct
traffic towards Mumbai but it did not exist till 1993. The possible
reason may be that there was a link at Parel to move the traffic in
that direction. Several years back, when Vapi bridge was washed out,
all north bound WR trains used this link.

Coincidence or not, the Loco driver who saved his train by backing
off from Vapi bridge moments before it was washed out, Mr. Martin,
was chargesheeted for backing off instead of receiving commendation.
He was also the driver of the train that rammed stationary / just
started EMU at Vasai outer signal and died just about the time when
the verdict was announced.

Prakash

Notes Address: Prakash Tendulkar/Santa Teresa/IBM@IBMUS
VM Address: IBMUSM50(PRAKASH)
Internet Address: prakash@us.email
Phone: (408)463-3536
DB2 Technical Consultant, Vendor Partnership Program

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Time Table.

Date: 31 Aug 1998 07:25:51 -0500

Great page of Pakistani steam!

<A HREF="http://www.w-ing.or.jp/~hiromi/paki/meter.html">http://www.w-ing.or.jp/~hiromi/paki/meter.html</A>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Frontier Mail

Date: 31 Aug 1998 22:11:28 -0500

Hi Gang,

An Western Railway ad in the Times of India today commemorates the 70th
year of service by the Frontier Mail.
Text of the ad :

>> The 1st September 1998 is a memorable day for Western Railway, as on
this day, the Frontier Mail (now, Golden Temple Mail), one of the
fastest long distance daily trains, commemorates its 70th Anniversary,
marking the completion of glorious seventy years of service to the
people <<

A picture of a WDM2 hauled train over a stone / masonary bridge is shown
with dates 1st September 1928 - 1998 in the ad.

Apurva Bahadur

From: Dheeraj Sanghi <>

Subject: poor passenger service on IR.

Date: 31 Aug 1998 23:06:00 -0500

I had an experience last night which I thought I will share with you.
I was scheduled to take Marudhar Express from Kanpur to Jaipur.
The train is from Varanasi to Jodhpur. It reaches Kanpur at 12:35 AM.

So I reached station at midnight. The train is listed as "late
indefinitely." I had tried calling station before going there and
no one was answering the phone. Anyway I asked the enquiry person
if he had any idea. I was wondering if I could go back home and
come back in the morning. He said that I could safely assume that
the train is at least 3 hours late. This was hardly useful info
since I could not go back to IIT and come back at 03:30 AM, and
what if they were to tell me again to return after another 3 hours.

After entering every office which was open at that time, and
enquiring from every tom, dick and harry, I was finally pointed to one
gentleman. He was extremely helpful, and told me the exact status of
the train. The train was to start from Varanasi at 02:30 AM, and he
said that even if the train were to run at max speed, it would not be
able to reach Kanpur before 08:30 AM, but the likely time is 09:30 AM.

I asked him why they don't tell at the enquiry that the train is at
least "8 hours late" instead of "indefinite" late. This will help all
the passengers since they can go back to their respective homes, and
have a proper sleep. This will also reduce congestion and tension
at the station. I was told some rules, which I didn't understand.

I just called the station out of curiosity,
and the train is running 12 hours late.

Anyway, we decided that we will cancel our trip to Jaipur.
There was a counter to cancel tickets for trains that leave
in the night. But it won't cancel the return journey ticket.
We had to go again in the morning. Also, while we will get
full refund for onward journey since the train is more than
3 hours late, but we would have to pay 25% cancellation
charges on the return journey. Shouldn't the two be linked.

The purpose of this mail is not to bitch about railway services,
but to point out that there are areas in which the passenger
service can be improved without any major investments. And as
someone was suggesting earlier, perhaps IRFCA could try to come
up with such suggestions and send them to appropriate authorities.
The two examples from this mail are:

1. If they have exact information about the late running of
the train, what are these rules that stop them from giving
that information to the public. Can't they be changed.

2. If one is cancelling an onward journey because of late
running of train, and the return journey is scheduled
soon thereafter, shouldn't they cancel the return
journey ticket also without deducting any money.

-dheeraj
--------------
Dr. Dheeraj Sanghi (0512) 59-7077/7638
(Off)
Dept. of Computer Science & Engineering (0512) 59-8627 (Res)
Indian Institute of Technology (0512) 59-0725/0413
(Fax)
Kanpur - 208 016 (UP), INDIA. dheeraj@iitk.email

From: poras p.saklatwalla <>

Subject: Re: Frontier Mail

Date: 31 Aug 1998 23:34:16 -0500

On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Apurva Bahadur wrote:

> Hi Gang,
>
> An Western Railway ad in the Times of India today commemorates the
70th
> year of service by the Frontier Mail.
> Text of the ad :
>
> >> The 1st September 1998 is a memorable day for Western Railway, as
on
> this day, the Frontier Mail (now, Golden Temple Mail), one of the
> fastest long distance daily trains, commemorates its 70th Anniversary,
> marking the completion of glorious seventy years of service to the
> people <<
>
> A picture of a WDM2 hauled train over a stone / masonary bridge is
shown
> with dates 1st September 1928 - 1998 in the ad.
>
> Apurva Bahadur
>

PORAS P.SAKLATWALLA
TEL :5773535/3636
EXT :4226/4232/4237

Yes I am thrilled and hope this evening when the Frontier (now Golden
Temple) mail, departs it must be decorated. I have tears in my eyes,
because Frontier was the 1st ever train I travelled in my life in the
year
1972, when it was still steam hauled. What speed in those days. The
loco
drivers and the entire W.R. Community refers to it as 3 Dn or Frontier.

Hope I get more info from my colleagues and Happy Frontier Day to you.

From: Shrinivas Bhatwadekar <>

Subject: Re: poor passenger service on IR.

Date: 01 Sep 1998 00:28:20 -0500

> I had an experience last night which I thought I will share with you.

Hi All,

This has reference to mail on the subject by Dr. Dheeraj Sanghi.
I am sure everyone must have had such bad experiences.

It is a general observation that the Railway officials are always
secretive about giving exact information to passengers whenever there
are delays/derailments etc.Railways have excellent communication
network of their own,still the indifferent attitude of the personnel
and the 'babu' culture prevalent among railway staff has resulted in
hiding information from travelling people, who in fact are their
customers !!

Passengers travelling even on special category trains like Rajdhani Exp
and Shatabdi Exp.,let alone other trains, also get the same treatment
because of this attitude.I would like to narrate my one experience
while travelling with the most prestigious train on Indian Railways,
viz. Rajdhani Exp.

I was to board MCT-NDLS Rajdhani Exp. at
Baroda for New Delhi.The train leaves for N.Delhi from around 21.30 Hrs.
That day when I dialled railway enquiry, I was told that the
train was running late and would arrive at Baroda at 00.30 Hrs.When
dialled at 23.00 Hrs, I was told that the train would arrive at 3.30
Hrs.Again when I dialled ( luckily ) at 0.15 Hrs, I was told the train
would come at 5.30 Hrs.Finally I slept and woke up at 4.00 o'clock.When
asked again 4.30 Hrs, they told me it would come at 7.00 o'clock.Finally
at 6.30 Hrs I left for the station.The train arrived at 8.00 o'clock !!
It was running almost 11 hours behind schedule.

The reason was that the tracks between Bharatpur and Mathura were under
water and that's why all trains were late.The point is not this.Tracks
can go under water due to disasters and such things can happen.But
passengers are to be taken into confidence.In my case,this event had
not
occurred previous day.It had happened four-five days ago and the
railway
people had made alternative route available.( via. Bayana - Agra Fort
) Besides and more importantly,the same day (ie. on my date of travel)
the up train (NDLS-MCT ) had left Baroda station for MCT only at 17.00
Hrs !! ( I came to know of this next day morning after unofficial
enquiry )

Anyone with common sense knows that Rajdhani trains usually have the
same rake which makes trips between NDLS and MCT.So how can a rake
which left Baroda at around 17.00 Hrs. for MCT would reach MCT and
come back to Baroda back by 00.30 Hrs ? It's impossible !! Rajdhani
takes about four hours and forty five minutes for a distance of 392
Kms between MCT and Baroda ( BRC ).So even theoretically the train
could not have arrived before 3.00 o'clock.Then why mislead passengers
? My point is exactly the same as made Dr. Dheeraj.The railway
officials could have made a safe guess and informed passengers that
train was not expected to arrive, say before 4 o'clock in morning.

The passengers' time has no meaning or what ?can we say our Railways
really ours ?Can we depend upon them ?Although such incidents are not
very frequent, they are not too rare also.

Sadly 'user-friendliness' is missing in railway officials and it is
high time that the railways do something about it which will not only
improve their image among travelling people,but would also add to their
revenue.can we at IRFA do something about it ?

-- Shrinivas Bhatwadekar
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at <A HREF="http://mail.yahoo.com">http://mail.yahoo.com</A>

From: Shrinivas Bhatwadekar <>

Subject: Re: poor passenger service on IR.

Date: 01 Sep 1998 00:28:24 -0500

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Lack of Info for the traveller

Date: 01 Sep 1998 02:45:34 -0500

Hi Gang,

Refer: Dhiraj and Shrinivas's mail about the lack of information
about late running of trains. In Mumbai where a later running (most of
them Suburban) trains may cause a serious law and order situation, the
management of CR and WR have taken to actually telling the position of
the train by the Public Address system. You do get to hear the
"Amberanath Slow local is passing Dombivali". This helps in somewhat
pacifying the impatient crowd. Yes, correct information is all that we
are looking for. This culture seems to have been passed to Pune as well.
The other day the PA system on the Pune station mentioned that 'Local to
Lonalvala was standing on the Sangam bridge (at the entrance of Pune
yard) due to some technical reasons'
It helps to be a visible railway enthusiast. On a positive note - a
friend of mine was due to travel to Nagpur on the 7383 Dn Kolhapur -
Nagpur Maharashtra Express which was running 'indefinitely late' on that
day. So I patched him up with a friendly section controller whom I
knew, and he actually woke our man up with a telephone call when the
train was within 2 hours range of Pune !

Apurva Bahadur

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Details of the timetables requirement

Date: 01 Sep 1998 07:14:16 -0500

Hi Gang !

Please go through this list and get back to me ASAP.

Apurva

From: Pushkar Apte <>

Subject: Re: poor passenger service on IR.

Date: 01 Sep 1998 07:50:52 -0500

Hi Folks,

I agree with Dheeraj and Shriniwas entirely about the really terrible
information system on IR. This business about a train being
"indefinitely
late" is tragi-comic! How can a train be "indefinitely late" (except
in the
context of a disaster) ? Is it lost? Can they not locate the train and
calculate a reasonable average time for its delay? As said earlier,
this is
certainly something IR can improve at almost no cost, but the culture
must
change. Currently, IMO the first sentence that any govt. officials
learn is:

"Whatever you are wanting, I am not giving."
:-) :-(

-Pushkar

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